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tv   Book Discussion on November 22 1963 and Kennedy and Reagan  CSPAN  January 19, 2014 9:51am-10:48am EST

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market. i mean, you know, those, you know, sort of advocates of the free market are just as tied to the federal dole as anybody else. i mean, it's incredible. but if we're going to have enough money and enough resources to bring out the best in our country, then we gotta grow the pie. and to he, if there's -- to me, if there's been a shortcoming in this current administration, it's that we don't talk enough about that. that ought to be, that and making sure government works ought to be the singular focuses of this administration. they could go to jack markell and a bunch of governors around the country who understand that. but it's really important. as i said, you know, in the 19 -- in 1992 i think we saved progressive government by trimming its excesses. and i think we're going to have to do it again.
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so we're going to look to guys like jack to do it. thank you all again for coming. it was great fun writing the book. i hope you'll buy many copies -- [laughter] i'll just tell you, i don't know if lanny's here, but -- and elaine and others who have written books probably have gone through this, but there's this phenomenon, amazon. they keep -- rob, you're probably a bestseller. bruce went up about a da zillion points when rahm got named chief of staff. but anyway, every hour they rate your books. [laughter] and you'll go, if there's something, you're on it's or something happens, you'll go from 500,000th out of a million books to 30,000, and you'll be up in the top 20 or 40 in political books. and you get addicted to that. so go out and buy it so -- [laughter] so i don't have to go on detox. anyway, thank you all for coming. [applause]
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[inaudible conversations] >> is there a nonfiction author or book you'd like to see featured on booktv? send us an e-mail at booktv@cspan.org or tweet us at twitter.com/booktv. >> coming up next on booktv, authors dean owen and scott paris discuss the presidency and assassination of john f. ken -- kennedyment this is just over an hour. [applause] >> thank you, re may, ask can thank you to powell's bookstore in beaverton, oregon, for hosting scott and myself. it's an honor to be here this evening. how many of you here this evening who are 60 years old or
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older do not remember where you were when you heard the news that john f. kennedy had died? how many of you are between the ages of 20 and 60 who do not remember where you were when you heard about the tragedy of 9/11? sudden traumatic, unexpected events leave indelible images in your our mind and in our psyches. i was 7 years old on november 22, 1963. i was in the second grade in a city called hayward, california. and the older sister of a girl in my class came to door or -- because it was raining outside, we couldn't go out for recess -- and said the president had been killed. of course, i didn't believe her. and later that day i went home across the street to where my grandmother live asked saw my mother and grandmother watching television, and i knew it was real. that weekend i read everything i could and watched everything i
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could on television about this extraordinary event. and that was the weekend, that was the cat his for my -- catalyst for my fascination, my wife would say obsession, about how the media shaped. in 2010 i turned 55 and started wondering what's my legacy? i realized everyone has two legacies, a personal and a rollsal one. i've been married to the same woman for 31 years. it's because of her i'm a christian. we have two incredible daughters and a wonderful so many. so that box, the personal legacy, is checked. i started thinking about, well, what about my professional one? i decided to go back to that weekend in 1963. i like to talk to people, so i made a list of a hundred people i wanted to ask about john kennedy and picked up the phone can and started calling. over the next two and a half years, i talked to a hundred
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people. not the original hundred from the list, but many of themment themment -- them. the first two i tried and tried and tried to get but couldn't. those were fidel castro and bill clinton. i even talked to che get very row's widow and still got turned down. the third person on the list was helen thomas who covered the white house. she wound up writing the forward. she passed away this july. in fact, she's one of ten people in my book who have passed away since i've interviewed them. i want to show you a brief slide show of some of the about 90 people who are in the book and some of their reflections on john kennedy. after ward, i'll come back for a few minutes and then scott will come up and speak. >> i suppose i am -- [inaudible] in that 24 hours the first couple of days. i would think that i, you know, became more realistic as a
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journalist and saw the larger screen probably and the consequences of daring action and the evil that can come even to america. so i do think it was a seminal time for me. the television set was, if you will, the centrifuge for the country. >> yes. >> everybody drew from it in some fashion. i think his legacy was in the boldness of
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>> he watched the pictures of young people being hosed, fire hosed in the streets of birmingham, and he told onlookers, he said, this makes me sick. and it must have had that effect on everybody who saw, or most
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people who saw it. but, you know, for him to teal that way ask say it means he was moved by it, and it shifted him. >> i was a huge enthusiast. in fact, i recently found -- and then, of course, you find something like this when you're going through your stuff -- my notebook from the period which contained all my material, had a very carefully hand-lettered kennedy for president message on it. >> in the conservative world, there are a lot of people -- it's become almost champion place to suggest that john kennedy would be a republican today. because he was pro-tax cuts, he clearly was pro-business and because of the support for a strong defense -- >> yes. >> will -- strong foreign policy. >> when jfk jr. was born, the chief of the an these ya department held him up by the
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ankles and slapped his buttocks. after doing this for several minutes, the infant became very sigh nottic which is blue in color, and i told him the baby needed to be intubated. he handed the baby to me, and i passed a tube into the trachea of the baby. i handed the baby back to him since he was the chief of anesthesia. however, he was a bit nervous and knocked the tube out. i then grabbed the baby back, reinserted the tube and for about six minutes wreathed air into the lungs -- breathed air into the lungs of the baby. ..
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and there were three of them within. he looked up at me and he said, do you mind having a picture made with me? and i told them i was born that coffee, and i said, it's my pleasure. and when i said it's my pleasure, he just busted out laughing. i guess because of -- we talked kind of southlake. and he said he just died laughing. that's when they snapped the picture. someone ran in, came into the restaurant and told us that he had been shot. and i just ball.
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i crawled and i crawled -- i just ball. that's the only president that i really loved. >> it was a very, it was a seminal film for me because of the attention. and because of the respect that kennedy had garnered from the american public. and after we'd finished, i got a call from the white house asking me if, when i like to come back and meet the new president. i said, you bet. so i went down to washington. arrived two hours early. i wasn't about to be laid, so i was honored. he had an innate ability to make you feel very comfortable. it was surprising because all of a sudden a door opened behind me
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and the voice, high, cliff. just as casual as that. any people that i knew. but we were complete strangers your biting away, he said, very nice things. he couldn't have been more generous and more helpful. >> jack kennedy figured out how to use television. i've always had this theory that the most successful politicians are the ones who mastered the dominant media, medium of their time. i mean, kennedy came along and he had this great wit and verve, and he was so good that he had changed, he changed the presidency forever. i still think nobody has quite mastered the way he did. it's hard to say anybody was better on television than ronald reagan. he was very, very good.
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but i still think that kennedy was the one -- i may comment he could do the interview, he could do the press conference, he could make the speech. and he was just all around better at it. i think he set a style and he set a tone for the presidency. he brought glamour to the presidency. he made a lot of young people want to take part in public service and serve their country. >> doing the interviews for this book, "november 22 "november 22 reflections on the life, assassination, and legacy of john f. kennedy" for me was a labor of love. in addition to contacting people whose names you know walter mondale, billy graham, tom brokaw, i also wanted to find
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people who had interesting, funny or poignant encounters with john kennedy but who aren't very well known. people like priscilla johnson macmillan, not a household name but probably the only person who ever lived who knew both the john kennedy and lee harvey oswald. there's only one. people like doctor i read cider and you saw there, i second your pediatric resident who happened to be in the delivery room when john f. kennedy, jr. was born not breathing. and who saved his life. and another gentleman who i admire very, very much as many of you may know, the kennedys had a second son born august of 1963, patrick bouvier kennedy. he lived only 40 hours. research and he tried to save his life for 30 of those hours had never spoken publicly about this incident ever before. he gave me his first ever
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interview. i told people i would not ask the many questions about john kennedy's sex life or assassination conspiracy theories. more than enough has been written about both. people were very appreciative of that aspect. there are two or three family members were in the book, including a nephew, christopher kennedy lawford. he is an actor, filmmaker and author on various books on addictions. he lives in southern california. i have contacted him and said what i wanted to do, and like the other people i sought after, i mailed him a letter. i made sure that the first thing he opened when he saw that letter was a photo of him that i had found at the kennedy library in boston, a photo taken just after his uncle was awarded the nomination in 1960. so i called him a week later, and i said did you get the letter? yes. where did you get that photograph?
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i've never seen it before. will you send me a copy? i said, will you do any of you? he said yes, and i said yes. that's how i got one of the two nephews of john kennedy. the other is robert kennedy, jr. so again this was a labor of love. and, frankly, i'm still pinching myself it all really happened. because it was so much fun, so interesting. i met only of view of the people whom i interviewed in person, but i've developed some friendships i know will last many, many years. i'm going to turn it over now to scott farris to talk about his second book, and then we will take questions from all of you. indeed, very much. [applause] >> i would also join dean in thanking fouls in beaverton for hosting us tonight. i would also think all of you for comment of course. i think c-span as well who are
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here tonight to report this comment so it's a great evening. the shooting of the president, sitting president, is rare and traumatic. five sitting presidents have been shot. lincoln, garfield, make italy and kennedy died, and one, reagan, survived his wounds. despite these different outcomes the shootings of kennedy and reagan have multiple parallels and similarities ended on a time when they serve as sort of a bookend to a very tumultuous and sometimes disturbing period in american history. kennedy's murder was the first in a series of tragic events that just made the nation in the 1960s and 1970s, chalking it is that in including assassinations of martin luther king, jr. and robert kennedy, both in 1968. in the public consciousness even though killers of king and the kennedy brothers each had different motives, the murders are seldom considered unrelated acts.
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they are instead you to conspiratorially as though they were collectively meant to frustrate level hopes for a more racially just society. conversely, less than two months after reagan's shooting and survival, pope john paul ii also survived an assassination attempt likely approve if not orchestrated by the kgb. compared to the calamities of the previous two decades, it seems as if the world's luck had suddenly changed for the better. unlike lincoln who was killed at the pinnacle of his presidency the very week of the union victory of the civil war, the the kennedys an the reagan's shooting occurred at a key moment in history, but both became a key event in our national life. the assassination of kennedy and the near assassination of reagan profoundly shaped how we view each man. without the shootings, neither might have been considered a successful president, let alone great once. the idea for my book, "kennedy and reagan: why their legacies endure," spring from a news story that reagan february 2011 in which gallup announced that
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consistent with other polls taken during the previous 12 years, americans surveyed considered kennedy and reagan, our two greatest presidents. they sometimes share disposition with the lincoln but they were consistently ranked ahead of washington, jefferson, fdr and everybody else. this is not by the way the judgment of most historians. there are a few historians that rank one or the other men as great or near great, and some consider one or the other below average or even worse. collectively surveys of historians show that most believe kennedy and reagan for average president let's them significant achievements but also a number of failures. i was interested in the public perception and what fascinated me is that they're popular -- popular to is growing in seeing bipartisan. 85% of americans surveyed today believe kennedy did a good job as president while reagan's retrospective job approval rating is 74%. i get the site numbers, kennedy, the liberal icon, must have many
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republican admires. and reagan must have many democratic ones. they clearly each possess some quality that continue to resonate with americans and this has caught the attention of those most attuned to public opinion and politician but every presidential election cycle we hear republicans search for the next reagan while democrats look for someone who can rekindle kennedy's camelot. respective presidential candidates of each party go to considerable length to show their worthy of inheriting one or the other man's mantle from policies to haircuts, from the eloquence to the optimism. my book which is the first dual biography of both men who were, after all, contemporaries were just six your support, uncover some surprising parallels in both men's lives and their policies and which may dismay some people, as well as some key differences that continue define what separates our two major parties today. i hope you read the book to discover more about those
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surprising similarities. tonight want to bring to discuss how they became larger than life in a way that no politician would want to immolate. they both were shot. we need to recall that kennedy's murder in dallas on november 22, 1963, and reagan's wounding in washington, d.c. on march 30, 1981, both occurred at moments when each man's presidencies seems adrift, even flailing. passage of each man's legislative agenda in congress was far from guaranteed. in fact, in each case their agendas were languishing in congress. each shooting been provided the impetus to grading their legacy. kennedy's camelot and reagan's revolution. in the fall of 1963, kennedy's job approval rating had dropped to 56%, the lowest point of his presidency. it seemed destined to fall even more. much of this was from his loss of wide support in the south over the issue of civil rights i generally the nation seemed to stall. kennedy had not one even 50% of the popular vote in 1960 and was
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sure he would lose the entire south in 1964, a region he carried in 1960. he worried many other states were at risk as well. "look" magazine which is one of many publications that ran articles in the fall of 1963 that explained kennedy could lose his reelection bid. kennedy's entire legislative package in congress, not just civil rights but also proposals for tax cuts, health insurance for the elderly, federal funding for education, foreign aid and just routine appropriations, were stalled and going nowhere. in words that will sink to the move today, the columnist walter lippman worded the congressional dysfunction in 1963 seemed a grave danger to the republic. and kennedy had no immediate plans for breaking through the impasse. so much of what we recall as the kennedy legacy, the civil rights act of the 264, that tax cuts some credit with the economic boom of the 1960s and a commitment to ending poverty in america all a card when lyndon johnson was president, but all
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were justified in large measure as memorials to kennedy, the martyred president. had kennedy lived it is conceivable much of his legacy would never have occurred. no civil rights legislation would've been approved in 1964. perhaps it might have come later like it is an open question which direction the civil rights movement might have gone had that legislation be further delayed and delayed. for activism are already moving away from nonviolence. even martin luther king in his speech at the lincoln memorial during the famed march on washington in an often overlooked passage warned that america would be in for quote a rude awakening if there were no strong actions taken sent to redress the grievances of african-americans. it was the tragedy of kennedy's assassination that was the rude awakening that finally prompted congress to act. kennedy had been president for two years and 10 months when he was assassinated. reagan had been president barely 10 weeks when he was shot but he was in a situation similar to
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what kennedy had been nearly 20 years before. like kennedy, reagan had not won a great mandate in his first election to the oval office. reagan had won just 50 points 75% of the popular vote and only 11% of voters said they agreed with his conservative principles. 38% said they voted for him just because he was not jimmy carter. democrats held a 53 vote majority in the house and speaker tip o'neill and majority leader jim wright were confident they could thwart the presence plans for massive reductions in income tax rates which they believed unfairly benefited the rich. reagan's job approval rating was 59%, the lowest of any president at such an early point in his presidency. and on the very day he was shot, rowland evans and robert novak had a syndicated column published that was headlined the reagan honeymoon is truly over. but one month after reagan was shot by a deranged young man outside of washington, d.c.
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hotel, they conceded the democrat controlled house would have no choice but to pass reagan's tax cut agenda. the shooting had made reagan to popular and too great a hero with the public to refuse his request. reagan displayed what kennedy himself quoting hemingway had defined as courage. grace under pressure. most americans did not realize and still do not realize how close reagan came to dying. he lost more than half of his blood, and the bullet entered his chest came within an inch of his 70 year old art. he was at george washington university hospital waiting for the surgery that saved his life. reagan joked to his wife, honey, i forgot to duck. he dated his surgeons he hoped they were all republicans. asked how he felt he quoted w.c. fields, on the whole i'd rather be in philadelphia. even when he lost his voice when a tracheotomy tube was inserted into his throat, he scribbled notes to the doctors and nurses in the recovery room writing, if i had this much attention in hollywood i would've stayed
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there. when he was assured he should relax, the government was running fine without them, he said what makes you think i would be happy to hear that? democrats would continue to contest of the reagan proposals in part by asserting who is insensitive to the less fortunate but they have difficulty making such charges stick. as "washington post" columnist david broder wrote, as long as people remember the hospitalized president joshing his doctors and nurses, no credit will be able to portray reagan as a cruel or callous or heartless man. reagan had personified what we think of as the finest qualities of the american character. with kennedy's assassination that role fell to his widow, jacqueline. there are many reasons why kennedy's assassination was such a dramatic event as was discussed earlier. while much of the kennedy legend is about what might have been, he did, in fact, inspired many americans during his short time in office with such a competence as the founding of the peace corps, the moon landing and uploading nuclear war during the cuban missile crisis. there was also because by 1963,
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television had infiltrated virtually every living room in america and because satellite technology had become newly available only months before the assassination. his assassination also became the first globally shared news event in human history. i've come to the conclusion that a key reason the assassination it americans so hard and as such a deeply personal level was the president -- presents and hundred of jackie kennedy. that she was even endows that it was an anomaly. the trip to texas was the first time since the 1960 election that misses the committee had joined her husband on the domestic political trip. in fact, since 19 city should never -- had not been of middleburg virginia where the kennedys had a horse country estate. when it announced that mrs. kennedy who still recovering from the loss of an infant son who died in childbirth, sh which woody guthe jkd texas, it was big news. present at the tragic event, she became even more so than her husband the focal point of all news coverage, and it was
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unprecedented coverage. ac nielsen estimated that the average american family watched 32 hours of coverage of the assassination and funeral, and this is the days when television channels went off the air at midday. their eyes were focused on the greeting first widow. a survey of college students conducted in a week after the assassination found that attention to mrs. kennedy's actions and deportment bordered on the assessment -- obsessive. the most powerful and enduring images from those horrible four days in november 1963 were of mrs. kennedy's expression of ineffable tragedy, first and a blood spattered pink dress and matching toe box that, and later dressed all in black, her beautiful, sad face framed by the mourning veil, her to heartbreakingly young children in each hand. mrs. kennedy worried that her husband's murder lacked meaning. told her husband had been killed by a deranged young man whom she referred to some silly little communist, she wished he'd been martyred for the cause of civil
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rights or something similarly noble. despite image that was often unhappy, jackie became determined to invest her husband path with many kids she directed the arrangements so that they mimic lincoln's funeral of a century before, consciously linking her husband to the great emancipated. it was issue came up with the idea first of the eternal flame to mark her husband's grave and then the conceit of her husband's presidency as a modern-day camelot. the image stuck and change the popular view of her husband from that of a young, flawed, content rich human politician burdened by missteps, false and promised him into an ageless sage whose survival we believe would've been insured in american golden age. jackie took what would've been a day of national shame that such a senseless violent act that could occur in america instead restore the country's pride by showing the grief could be born with extraordinary grace and resolve. a poet wrote that mrs. kennedy had made the darkest days of the american people know and in 100
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years the deepest revelation of their inward strength. lady jane campbell writing in the london "evening standard" said mrs. kennedy's poise and dignity given the american people from this day on the one thing they always lacked, majesty. frank sinatra said jackie had become america's queen. there was majesty during those four days in november with a muffled drums and the riderless horse but the 34 year-old jackie also made a funeral scene personal. a reminder not just a president had been killed but also a young family had been felled by tragedy and two children left fatherless. a typical sentiment was one expressed on a sign, close because of a death in the american family. by the time almost sexual care line with certain cell and her mother, you'll be all right, mommy, don't cry, i'll take care of you. we watched still two year-old john junior saluting his father's coffin, 80% of americans surveyed said they felt as if they had lost -- personally lost someone close
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into. nine in 10 report agreed over the assassination cost them physical discomfort. the sense of personal greed is captured in the famous exchange with washington star columnist mary mccrory cheerfully told some dinner guests a day after the assassination, we will never laugh again. which one of the guests, daniel patrick moynihan get a report, we will laugh again, mary, but we will never be young again. mrs. kennedy's dignity generated many classical allusions during those days. our nobility represented all the heroes we does down the centuries. cbs newsman dan rather predicted kennedy's assassination was to be discussed 1000 years from now. none of us will live long enough to know whether that prediction will come true, if you we are 50 years later still discussing that dark friday afternoon, but perhaps we still have not fully grasped its ramifications. thank you.
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[applause] >> we would love to take some questions and answers but before we do let me remind you, we are being filled for c-span. we are going to call and you. brazier hand and get contracted to both of us are one of us. the cognizant of the microphone being a new you. yes, sir. >> for both of you. if president clinton had not been assassinated, if it served his second term equity do you think his legacy would be lesser or greater? >> i don't think it could have been greater. lesser because it sounds as if i think would benefit but he would've been. the fact that he died and was assessed allows people to project whatever they wished might happen on them. whenever you're in office you to make choices every day that close to half the country would not like no matter what you do. when you're no longer responsible for that, both sides can imagine cashman he would've got us out of vietnam.
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we wouldn't have had watergate, all these things that happened later. that wouldn't have happened. he was a human being. he was flesh and blood. he would've made mistakes. he might have grown into a president we considered great our new great but you couldn't spent on his legacy given what we've invested in a bit because he was martyred. >> very well stated, and scott. i would also add that his assassination is part of his legacy. an important part of his legacy. as scott said, his widow made a very intentional effort to make sure that people remembered her husband in the exact way that she wanted, the whole camelot mystique. >> don't be shy. >> the lovely lady back there. >> kennedy death they particularly happy marriage, though it seemed like they did at times. what led you to that conclusion?
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>> thank you for that question. i'm going to borrow a line from a biographer said the romance of jack and jackie was about them, not between the. unfortunately, i think that is sadly too. certainly there was an attraction there. she was lovely but he was handsome and they're both educated. the fact is i think their marriage was a marriage of convenience. activity was, of course a very renowned, happy bachelor. he realized he could not run for president if he didn't have a wife. we've had a number of widowers run for president. one bachelor, poor james buchanan back in 1856. he was looking for a beautiful, intelligent, cultured wife who would make a good political wife. and he met jaclyn bouvier and thought she fit the bill. i think is also sort of -- i'm not sure i'm as harsh but he thought jackie and he picks somebody who would tolerant his many affairs.
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jackie was also looking to get me because she needed frankly, the money. she knew about jack's a petition to get also had a father who had been a plan for come and so she played men were just kind of this would and should be able to deal with it and move on. but her father she adored, adored her husband was named john and they call them blackjack had lost his fortune in the 1930s to get grown up sort a very nice lifestyle and now that was gone when her father lost all the money. her stepfather made it very clear was not going to support bouvier's children. he had his own to take up an indigo make their way in the world. when jackie met jackie kennedy, she was working as a reporter for the "washington times" held and making $42.50 a week. that was her whole income. for a woman who liked french cuisine and the finer things in life, that wasn't the life she envisioned for a so. they married each other for convenience. jack continued his ways. he often left at home alone.
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she seldom traveled with him on these trips even before or after he became president. i will say this but i think there were two things that start to change their marriage and make them a little closer. the first was the trip to paris in 1961 wer 1961 when jackie tos by a storm. she spoke french, studied in france. she loved french designers, everything french. the welcome she received really impressed her husband. he realized i hit a homerun when i picked this woman. she's fabulous. and then the second was the death that dean mentioned of their infant son, patrick, who was born and died prematurely, died in august 63. there was a tenderness that have been missing before. jackie had lost her first child, a little girl, but then syndicated was off on a cruise and embedded training have a good time with a number of beautiful women and friends. he didn't want to go home after he heard about her miscarriage. one of his friends said, jack, if you don't go home, you might as well forget about being
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president. he started out as this callous -- but by 96 to develop a real tenderness. would like to thank the last part of the marriage was much happier than before. >> i would just add that in particular on that point about the death of their infant son patrick, i would refer you to first and parks book, jfk's last 100 days where he talks about that extensively and have the death really affected president kennedy and changed, i think, his view of his marriage, his lifestyle, and brought the family closer together. more questions, please. >> why was joe kennedy so -- why was he so interested in having john kennedy or the older brother run for president? >> i can start.
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joe kennedy i think himself wanted to be president, and became as you probably know the ambassador to england during franklin roosevelt's administration. and later fell out of favor with roosevelt because of his tacit support, if not flat-out opposition to adolf hitler and his rise to power in germany. he fell out of favor. he was grooming his oldest son, joseph kennedy, jr., to be running for president. and, of course, he died in an airplane during world war ii, over what was deemed a suicide bombing mission. so the mantle of the expectation to become president fell to jack kennedy. the father really -- from what
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i've read, from what i've talked to people, was extraordinarily controlling individual, and -- welcome to give you an example, in the book, john, a first amendment specialist who worked as a journalist who also worked for both the kennedy administration and also for robert kennedy, talks about how he was present when president-elect kennedy had breakfast with his brother who tried to convince the brother to become attorney general. the brother, robert, had the day before going to visit several political people in washington, a couple members of the u.s. supreme court, j. edgar hoover, and others. hoover was the only one who encouraged opportunity to assume the role as attorney general.
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and the next day he asked his friend john c. can follow to accompany him to the president-elect some to have breakfast. and on the drive there from the home in mclean, virginia, to the kennedy some in georgetown, in washington, he knew he did not want to take the job. he knew, he said, his father was going to be really, really angry. his father wanted robert to become attorney general. and that morning over breakfast jack kennedy would have nothing of his brothers opposition. he wanted him to be attorney general. i think largely both because of his own interest to have an insider whom he could trust completely for advice and counsel, but also to some extent with pressure from his father. >> joe kennedy senior was quite a character. and quite an accomplishment. 25, he was a bank president. he knew he had a lot on the ball. he was very bitter that he was
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never fully accepted in boston decided or covered because he was irish catholic. there's a great divide in bost boston. it was his goal in life to really get his revenge if not by the can present himself, getting one of his kids to be the first catholic president and the united states. so why joe, jr.? here's another parallel between kennedy and reagan. they both have dominant older brothers. joe kennedy, jr. -- described him as the golden children tall, handsome, a good student, a good athlete. kathleen kennedy, one of the sister said, it was heresy and the family to suggest there was anything that jack kennedy could do better than his brother joe. it was a tremendous tragedy for the bears when joe died because all the hopes had been invested into junior. it took them a little while to sort of is either going to transfer those to john kennedy. is rumored they went over. they weren't sure he was going to be a good politician to a
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city was shy and reserved, which he was about the party was. sometimes parents don't know the kids as well as they think they do. this went over to joe. reagan's older brother, tolerant, more handsome, more eloquent, more leadership. when john kennedy and ronald reagan were kids nobody thought they're going to grow up to be president. there was an interesting pair the. but he wanted the idea of getting an irish catholic president was the ultimate him in the nose of the snobs in boston. >> thank you. how did president reagan -- [inaudible] how does it still not really contaminate is like using? >> very interesting question, and the reason is he knew when to play dumb. people say what was one of the surprising things you learned writing the book, i don't mean
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justo be condescending, but how intelligent ronald reagan was was surprised to he was a bright man or he would have been governor, president, and also successful actor and the corporate sports -- spokesperson and sportscaster he had a photographic memory. he grew up with a photographic memory. he taught himself to read by the age of five. he became one of the most poplar sportscasters in america. broadcasting hundreds of baseball games. he never actually saw in person. he would be in a radio studio and a telegraph would send them symbols, two or three letters and then he would make up the rest of the game and broadcast going on two or three hours. that requires a special kind of intelligence that i can't grasp. but he liked to play like he wasn't quite up on things. whenever he was in trouble you would pretend, well, i guess to remember the. i just don't know. and so when iran-contra came up and, of course, a lot of liberals have always thought he
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may have been amiable but he is no does. he used that image when he wanted to. when he got in trouble with iran-contra he played the i just don't recall, i don't think us at the meeting but i don't recall what was it. anybody unfortunately believe him. all -- oliver north later said when he was no water under oath, said president reagan knew everything. because when president making cared about something, he was involved in detail but he cares a lot about iran. he carried both backend hostages out of lebanon, arming the contras. but he got a pass partly in the end of his presidency but partly because people believe he didn't know. he's not a hands-on manager. he was when he wanted to be. [inaudible] >> yes. the question -- sorry. [inaudible] >> right. and i think at that point people, the reason, the question
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why does it still not tortious legacy to the truth has come, it's not after the fact. once an image gets set it's hard to pull back and change it. the image was there, maybe new company b didn't but it's over with. he had the bandage of having the summits with gorbachev that overshadowed everything of the the falling of the relationship between the u.s. and the soviet in is what he remembered the last two years for. iran-contra is just sort of an embarrassment, but nothing more than that. >> with robert kennedy, the reason for him, being assessing along with his brother, was it because he clamped down on the mob and his father paid the mob to vote them all in and this was his day off for his brother in 10? is that the motive behind all this? >> i mean, his father did pay a lot of money to the union in the mob. that was then part of the story. john kennedy.
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>> there is so much speculation about why each man was assassinated. there have been extraordinary rumors beyond belief about the motives of the alleged assassin. and we just don't know. we never fully welcome especially i don't think about president kennedy's assassination. even if it was announced next week if this is the definitive word on who was behind president kennedy's assassination, they would be the immediate speculation that that wasn't true but it really was the grassy nobody really was the person from the tall, old red building is a couple blocks away. i was in dallas in august to do research for an article on what dallas was playing for the 50th anniversary for the "los angeles times." and you meet people who are on the street of claims to have been there. they probably were, who claimed
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that there were seven or eight different shooters that day. with robert kennedy i think it's a little bit more cut and dried, that the individual who is accused of his assassination who was tried and sentenced to prison, sirhan sirhan, dated, his motives, who was behind it, the mob, et cetera, we just don't know. and i really care not expected on things i don't know about. >> i would recommend a book to anyone who really wants to get into this called reclaiming history. he wrote of one and half million word about in which he takes each conspiracy theory individually. on john kennedy's assassination of not robert, and look at the of it comes to the conclusion, though i would not express any great expertise in, it was probably a loan gunman, lee harvey oswald. the perils between kennedy and
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reagan, both shot by derangement. one with 23, 124, both loners, both men who tried to assessing other famous people before. oswald had tried to shoot a guy named edward walker. hinkley headstock jimmy carter for a while trying to shoot him. i think part of it just doesn't register because we think of kennedy as the liberal icon, the guy who likes of the right. that guy on the list. he was shot by a self developed marxist. reagan, conservative, a guy who thinks civil rights has gone before. he shot by a guy who is a self avowed white summer prep -- white supremacist. we just look at the bottom line both art troubled young men as sirhan sirhan, do. it's hard to accept that there's a book on lincoln that said it's just hard to believe that a peasant can kill a king. so we just want to look for a bigger reason than that.
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>> what is the best professional opinion about how bad kennedy's health really was at the time of his death and help might have affected the rest of his presidency? >> certainly pick the best book on that is -- used universal access to the presence medical records by the kennedy family. his health condition was serious. rob wittman worst thing has was addison's disease which is still not curable entirely. when he was first diagnosed in 1947, he had it for a while but finally diagnosed in 47, vigilant you will probably live and other tenures. he began to believe anything after 1957 what he was living on borrowed time. of part of the reason he always seemed to be in a hurry. he wanted to get things done because he didn't know if you live. he had many health problems, bad back, addison's disease. and to call these medications arhave further complicated his health. he was in bad health.
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potentially would've died of natural causes had he not been assassinated. we don't know that but it was pretty serious and it was a constant concern of this. his brother robert said there wasn't a day on earth that my brother wasn't in severe pain. that seems to be true. >> let me read you something that i thought of when scott was commenting about the doctor saying can be would only have 10 years to live. this is an excerpt from my book, a commentary from lee white was one of kennedy's close advisers in the white house who also worked for john kerry when he was a member of the u.s. senate. john kennedy did not go peacefully over that little hope of turning 40. i remembered the event even today. sometimes we joke or make gags about turning 40, but he was not joking. i don't know quite why. i know damn well that he was not
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happy. i was not aware as others were about his medical and physical problems. he might have thought, wow, i've been going uphill and down going to be going downhill. but it was a rude awakening, especially for hot dog like he was. >> scott, you mentioned the time of kerry's assassination his support in the south was eroding but i've always had the impression that at least he didn't move when residential -- [inaudible] support among southern democrats. how much credit should he be given for civil rights initiatives that followed his presidency? >> i think he gets a fair amount of credit you're right, he was very reluctant. for one thing his real love was foreign affairs.
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he worried that civil rights demonstrations would embarrass the united states abroad. instead of being angry at the segregationist he was met at the black activists for causing like the freedom riders which he thought generated bad headlines. he made a number of token things that he thought were more than anybody could hope to do in that environment. because as i mentioned, the congress was controlled by a coalition of conservative democrats in the south, conservative republicans from the midwest. he felt he was pushing as hard as he could. he did not want to support from the 1964 election from the white south. the same with james meredith, he thought okay, they're happy with the gains it made no, we went to quiet time and i can get back and focus on the cold war and what to do in vietnam, et cetera. and in the spring of 63 several things happened to the most egregious being the demonstrations in birmingham in which you have images -- had
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been launched as a protest trying to get burn him to emigrate, public lunch counters, transportation all these things. no progress was being made. martin luther king and the other local leaders in birmingham plateglass card they had which is the asked 1000 like schoolchildren, some as young as six, delete the marches. bull connor, the famous obit say the officer brought out the police dogs and fire hoses and the pictures of that just second of all nations including the president. that began to click to lyndon johnson went to him and said it's time for you to do something on civil rights. lyndon johnson we think of as a southerner, or more progress on we spend president kennedy was initially. lyndon johnson spent a lot of his life teaching in segregated schools, mexican-american kids in texas and he said you need to put the moral authority of the presidency behind civil rights. finally, the last thing that happened was that the federal government was able to pressure the university of alabama to integrate peacefully, unlike the situation in mississippi the year before. and weren't riots that killed
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people. george wallace made a big show but then stepped aside and let the students enroll in alabama. that they can decide i want to go on tv tonight and i want to propose civil rights that the. >> been bugging me about. they hadn't even written a speech to the speech was being written as he was on live tv and they were handing in sheets of paper. at that point he said this is a moral issue. it's as clear as the cost vision is as old as -- it was a moral issue and that was an important turning point but it did taken quite a while to get to that point. >> wait for the mic phone to get there. thank you for your patience. >> dean, i was struck by your vivid memories of kennedy's assassination to the unity of the people who were children when it happened? >> oh, gosh, yes. i interviewed several people who have children, and their
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comments about how it affected their families were also very poignant to me as well. as scott mentioned, it really -- people today, young people today, can't have them what it was like that we can. and the story member it vividly. there was nothing else on television. the three channels that we have been. stores closed, sports events were canceled. people didn't go out of their homes, or they would to other peoples homes to watch the coverage of the funeral. and then on sunday morning, i'm sitting in front of my parents television in the living room of our home, and i see a man get shot live on television. that had never happened before in the history of this country. television, as mr. brokaw mentioned during the slideshow, was the centrifuge for the
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country. we all drew from it in some way. it was an extraordinary event. far beyond i believe as he says in his book, reclaiming history, far beyond what happened with the september 11 attacks. tragically, more than 2000 people died that day, but very few people knew who they were. as scott mentioned, kennedy's assassination was a death in the family. it was that moving. it was that tragic. it was that extraordinary, and it affected everyone. and for me at age seven, it was the catalyst for my career in journalism and in communications. >> i wasn't sure i was going to pull this out. i was six years old. i was in first grade, and has been mentioned, we got sent home. i was in wng

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